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Note Regarding Catholic Affiliation Catgrys.

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Traditional Latin ('Tridentine') Mass

Note Regarding 'Catholic Affiliation' Categories

~ Traditional, Conservative / Moderate, Progressive / Liberal ~

Important Notice: We make no guarantees regarding any item herein. By using this site, you indicate agreement to all terms. For more terms information, click here.

Novus Ordo (New Order) Mass


Click link below or scroll down to view all:

Introduction

Are reported classifications accurate?

What do the classifications mean?

How to determine which 'type of Catholic' you are

Which 'Catholic Affiliation' option should I select?

Which is the best type of Catholic to be?

Also See...


Introduction

While in reality, there should only be one "type" of Catholic - a good and faithful Catholic - the period since the Second Vatican Council has seen marked differences among Catholics - both external and internal. With regard to this fact...

* All should wish that no real differences would truly exist 

* Many would wrongly pretend that no differences actually do exist 

* Some differences among Catholics may involve only externals or expressions of the same truths

* Some of those who call themselves "Catholic" may be 'Catholic' in name only

* Many of today's Catholics may not be recognized as Catholics by previous generations

While some may think it divisive to classify Catholics by 'type', one must remember that:

* Many of the differences are significant and important

* It is undeniable that there exist different "types" of persons calling themselves Catholic

* It is more honest to admit there are different 'types' of persons calling themselves Catholic than to gloss over this fact

* High ranking prelates have used 'classifications' with reference to various Catholics 

* It may be important for other users to know which type of Catholic persons claim to be 

Finally, it should be noted that pointing to the different classifications is not the same as creating the differences. Rather, it simply serves to provide helpful information. It is the situation that is divisive, not the pointing out of the situation which is divisive. Note that we will be most happy to remove options for 'type of Catholic' when there no longer are underlying differences that warrant such classifications.

Are reported classifications accurate?

Indicated religious affiliations are provided by users (e.g. selected from a list of options) and have not been verified and are not endorsed by us. The classifications may reflect the opinions of the submitters and may be inaccurate. Remember that we cannot guarantee accuracy of any information, Catholicity of any item / individual / post / group / organization / etc., or make any other guarantee(s) regarding any item(s). 

What do the classifications mean?

The classifications for 'type of Catholic' refer to certain characteristics / behaviors / preferences / practices / etc. For more specific information on what makes a Catholic 'traditional' / 'conservative' / 'progressive' / etc., consider the matrix below.

How to determine which 'type of Catholic' you are

The following 'key items' may help you determine which 'type' of Catholic you are...

If you...+

You may be...

Traditional

Conservative / Moderate

Progressive / Liberal

Attend the traditional Latin Mass++

Y

M

N

Do everything you can to attend only the traditional Latin Mass++

Y

N

N

Want the complete restoration of the traditional Latin Mass and the abolishment (or near abolishment) of the Novus Ordo rite

Y

N

N

Accept / don't mind the practice of female altar servers

N

M

Y

Receive Holy Communion in the hand

N

M

Y

Receive Holy Communion under both species

N

M

Y

Want to receive Holy Communion kneeling

Y

M

N

Want to end priestly celibacy

N

M

Y

Want women 'priests'

N

N/M

Y

Are involved in 'charismatic' activities

N

M

M

Are involved in other new movements

N

M

M

Reject the Church's prohibition against contraception

N

N/M

Y

Want / promote large families

Y

M

N

Believe in the Real Presence as always taught by the Church

Y

Y/M

N

Choose which doctrines of the Church you will follow

N

N/M

Y

Readily accept novelty 

N

M

Y

Accept novelty after initial complaint / rejection (or immediately if no initial complaint)

N

Y/M

Y

Willingly pray publicly with Protestants

N

M

Y

Are involved in dissident group

N

N

M/Y

Reject homosexual behavior

Y

Y

N

Consider Mass primarily as a 'celebration'

N

M/Y

Y

Consider Mass primarily as a Sacrifice

Y

M

N

Talk in church

N

Y/M

Y

See church building as place of prayer

(as opposed to place of fellowship)

Y

Y/M

N

Accept the inerrancy of Scripture

Y

Y/M

N

Wear a veil to church (if a woman)

Y

M

N

Reject slacks for women

Y

M/N

N

Strongly desire priest at Mass to face Eastward

(towards altar, not people)

Y

N

N

Say the Rosary daily

Y

Y/M

N

Add 'Luminous' Mysteries to Rosary

N

Y/M

Y (if Rosary is said)

Likely to have Sacred Heart image in home

Y

M

N

Wear Scapular

Y

M

N

Believe in Eternal Hell

Y

M

N/M

Accept traditional roles for men and women

Y

M

N

Like Latin at Mass

Y

N/M

N

Fast throughout Lent (40 days)

Y

M

N

Observe daily / weekly devotions

Y/M

M

N

Receive Sacrament of Penance frequently

Y

M

N

Reject guitars at Mass

Y

N

N

Reject applause at Mass

Y

N

N

Reject the concept of lay readers at Mass

Y

N

N

Call priest by first name (e.g. Fr. Bob)

N

M/Y

Y

Engage in Eucharistic adoration

Y

M

N

Are saddened by Eucharistic abuses

Y

Y

N

Read pre-1960's books

Y/M

M

N

Seek conversion of non-Catholics

Y

M

N

Receive Holy Communion from hands of lay person

N

Y

Y

Stay after Mass to make thanksgiving

Y

M

N

See self as a sinner

Y

M/N

N

Strong sense of the sacred

Y

M/N

N

Central dogmatic beliefs are orthodox

Y

M

N

Reject abortion

Y

Y

M/N

Believe dogmatic teachings can 'evolve' in ways contrary to previous teachings

N

M

Y

Consider Protestant views to be heretical

Y

M

N

Believe 'path to heaven is narrow'

Y

M

N

Regular thoughts on the last things

Y

M

N

Saddened by clerics in lay dress

Y

M/N

N

Marian devotion

Y

M

N

Rejection of 'divorce'

Y

M

N

Want increased democracy in Church

N

M

Y

Belief in the constantly taught dogma of 'No Salvation Outside the Church'

Y

M

N

Concern for upholding tradition

Y

M

N

Rejection of pluralism in the Church

Y

M/N

N

Reject 'mixed marriages'

(marriages between Catholics & Non-Catholics)

Y

M

N

Pray for the dead

Y

Y/M

N

Use of holy water at home

Y

M

N

Want priests to show gravity of conduct

Y

M/N

N

Think changes from Second Vatican Council have helped the Church (in general)

N

M

Y

Want the Church to modernize

N

N/M

Y

Attend Mass at least on Sunday

Y

Y/M

Y/M/N

Proud of Church's past

Y

M

N

Homeschool your children

Y

M

N

Ignorance of basic tenets of faith

N

M

M/Y

Prefer independence to obedience

N

M

Y

Object to 'sign of peace' amongst lay persons at Mass

Y

M/N

N

Object to hand-holding at Mass

Y

M/N

N

Want increased lay involvement in the Church

N

M/Y

Y

Accept Papal Infallibility

Y

Y

M/N

+ Y indicates "yes", N indicates "no", M indicates "maybe". Above is not authoritative. Above items are general and may not apply to all persons. Bold items indicate "dead giveaway" items, however even they may not apply to all persons.

++ If you have never attended the Traditional Latin Mass before, it does not necessarily mean you are not traditional / conservative. However, if you understand the difference between the Traditional and Novus Ordo Mass and if a Traditional Latin Mass is available to you, the above may apply.

Which 'Catholic Affiliation' option should I select?

To decide which 'Catholic Affiliation' option to select, ask yourself where you stand on the items in the matrix above and compare your answers with those above. Then consider the following...

* If you are truly a traditional Catholic, you should have few or no answers that agree with the 'Conservative / Moderate' or 'Progressive / Liberal' position.

* If your answers overwhelmingly (e.g. by a margin of at least 40) favor one of the three categories above, it may be appropriate to select that 'Catholic affiliation'. Reminder: A true 'traditional Catholic' should have few or no answers that agree with the 'Conservative / Moderate' or 'Progressive / Liberal' position.

* If your answers are evenly spread out (or are somewhat evenly spread out) among the three categories, it may be appropriate to select 'Conservative / Moderate'. 

* If you are not sure, go with the most liberal (e.g. if you can't decide between Traditional and Conservative, choose "Conservative", if you can't decide between Conservative & Liberal, go with "Liberal"). 

* Important: If many of your answers agree with 'Traditional' and many of them agree with 'Progressive', you are probably 'Conservative/Moderate'. It is unlikely that a true traditional Catholic would have many answers at all that agree with the 'Progressive' position. [Note: This also goes for Conservative / Moderate - If many of your answers agree with 'Traditional' and many of them agree with 'Conservative / Moderate', you are probably 'Conservative/Moderate'.]

Which is the best type of Catholic to be?

First note that persons may change. If you have reflected on the above and realize that it is appropriate for you to change, you may always do so.

Next, note that the above types are not necessarily 'sharply defined'. Even within the above types, there may be various 'subcategories' of the above. For example, some traditionalists have been called "extreme traditionalists" (e.g. Sedevacantists). Properly speaking, Sedevacantists are not 'traditionalists' since they reject true popes. However, they will no doubt see themselves as "traditionalists". Therefore, one should be careful regarding the above categories.

With regard to the above categories, note that both "traditional" and "conservative" Catholics who stay within the proper bounds may be both be considered unobjectionable. As Catholics, we are called upon to preserve tradition and reject novelty. The following may be illustrative of the Church's view on tradition: 

"Let them innovate nothing, but keep the traditions." (Pope St. Steven I, 3rd century A.D.)  

"Be zealously affected to command that in all the churches the pure tradition be held." (St. Agatho I, 680 A.D.)

"Indeed, the true friends of the people are neither revolutionaries, nor innovators: they are promoters of tradition." (Pope St. Pius X, "Notre Charge Apostolique", 1910 A.D.)

"It is unlawful to alter the established customs of the Church... Remove not the ancient landmarks which the fathers have set." (St. Peter Damian, Doctor of the Church) 

"With these things let us be satisfied, and let us abide by them, not removing everlasting boundaries, nor overpassing the divine tradition." (St. John of Damascus, Doctor of the Church)

"It behooves us unanimously to observe the ecclesiastical traditions, whether defined or simply retained by customary practice of the Church." (St. Peter Canisuis, Doctor of the Church)

"It is needful also to make use of Tradition, for not everything can be gotten from sacred Scripture. The holy Apostles handed down some things in the Scriptures, other things in Tradition." (St. Epiphanius of Salamis)

"The best advice that I can give you is this. Church traditions - especially when they do not run counter to the faith - are to be observed in the form in which previous generations have handed them down" (St. Jerome, Doctor of the Church, 4th century A.D.)

"It is absurd, and a detestable shame, that we should suffer those traditions to be changed which we have received from the fathers of old." (Decretals, as quoted by St. Thomas Aquinas, Doctor of the Church and "greatest theologian in the history of the Church")

"A small thing is not small when it leads to something great; and it is no small matter to forsake the ancient tradition of the Church that was upheld by all those who were called before us, whose conduct we should observe, and whose faith we should imitate." (St. John of Damascus, Doctor of the Church)

"It will not be out of place to consider the ancient tradition, teaching and faith of the Catholic Church, which was revealed by the Lord, proclaimed by the Apostles, and guarded by the Fathers. For upon this faith the Church is built, and if anyone were to lapse from it he would no longer be Christian either in fact or in name." (St. Athanasius, Doctor of the Church)

"But in regard to those observances which we carefully attend and which the whole world keeps, and which derive not from Scripture but from Tradition, we are given to understand that they are recommended and ordained to be kept, either by the Apostles themselves or by plenary councils, the authority of which is quite vital in the Church." (St. Augustine, Doctor of the Church, c. 400 A.D.)

"Keep the talent of the Catholic faith inviolate and unimpaired. What has been faithfully entrusted, let it remain in your possession, let it be handed on by you. You have received gold, so give gold. For my part, I do not want you to substitute one thing for another; I do not want you impudently to put lead in place of gold, or fraudulently, brass. I do not want the appearance of gold, but the real thing." (St. Vincent of Lerins)

"Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions that you have been taught, whether by word or by our letter' (2 Thes. 2:15). From this it is clear that they did not hand down everything by letter, but there was much also that was not written. Like that which was written, the unwritten too is worthy of belief. So let us regard the tradition of the Church also as worthy of belief. Is it a tradition? Seek no further." (St. John Chrysostom, Doctor of the Church, c. 400 A.D.)

"'Guard,' says [St. Paul], 'what has been committed' (1 Tm. 6:20). What does it mean? It is what has been faithfully entrusted to you not what has been discovered by you; what you have received, not what you have thought up; a matter not of ingenuity, but of doctrine; not of private acquisition, but of public Tradition; a matter brought to you, not put forth by you, in which you must not be the author but the guardian, not the founder but the sharer, not the leader, but the follower." (St. Vincent of Lerins)

"But for Catholics nothing will remove the authority of the Second Council of Nicaea, where it condemns those 'who dare, after the impious fashion of heretics, to deride the ecclesiastical traditions, to invent novelties of some kind...or endeavor by malice or craft to overthrow anyone of the legitimate traditions of the Catholic Church' ...Wherefore the Roman Pontiffs, Pius IV and Pius IX, ordered the insertion in the profession of faith of the following declaration: 'I most firmly admit and embrace the apostolic and ecclesiastical traditions and other observances and constitutions of the Church'." (Pope St. Pius X, "Pascendi Dominici Gregis", 1907 A.D.)

"Surely, "blind and leaders of the blind" [Matt. 15:14] are they who, puffed up by the proud name of science, reach such a point in their raving that they pervert the eternal concept of truth, and the true sense of religion by introducing a new system, 'in which from an exaggerated and unbridled desire for novelty, truth is not sought where it certainly exists, and neglecting the holy and apostolic traditions, other doctrines empty, futile, uncertain, and unapproved by the Church are adopted, on which men in their extreme vanity think that truth itself is based and maintained.'" (Pope St. Pius X, "Pascendi Dominici Gregis", 1907 A.D.)

For argument sake, note that it may be possible that some "progressive / liberal" minded Catholics who manage to stay within appropriate bounds may not be deserving of rebuke [e.g. those who meet only a certain few "Y"'s and "N"'s above - providing, of course, that they accept all Church teachings and do not engage in or promote any sinful behavior (including contraception)]. On the other hand, liberal / progressive Catholics may be "imbued with a spirit that is heretical rather than Catholic" (Pope Pius XII), which of course is entirely unacceptable. And, if they are truly modernists, consider that Pope St. Pius X called modernism "the synthesis of all heresies" and called modernists "the most pernicious of all the adversaries of the Church", whereas Bl. Pope Pius IX called liberals (including modernists) "the worst enemies of the Church". As Pope St. Pius X said, "And now, can anybody who takes a survey of the whole system be surprised that We should define it as the synthesis of all heresies? Were one to attempt the task of collecting together all the errors that have been broached against the faith and to concentrate the sap and substance of them all into one, he could not better succeed than the Modernists have done." And, "the Modernists, in perfect harmony, as you may see, with their doctrines - methods and doctrines brimming over with errors, made not for edification but for destruction, not for the formation of Catholics but for the plunging of Catholics into heresy; methods and doctrines that would be fatal to any religion." (Pope St. Pius X, "Pascendi Dominici Gregis", 1907 A.D.)

Also See...

Latin Mass & Catholic Tradition: Q & A

Traditional Catholic (Topic Page)

The Traditional Latin Mass vs. the Novus Ordo (New) Mass

Summary of Changes Since Vatican II: A Revolution in the Church?

Vatican II and its Fruits

Current Issues (Catholic News Links Section)

Communion in the Hand: Why Not?

Communion Under Both Species: Is it Required?

Lay 'Eucharistic Ministers': Why Not?

Why Priestly Celibacy?

Top Reasons Why Women Can't Be Priests

Does it Really Matter if I'm Catholic or Not? / Combating Religious Indifferentism

Proper Behavior in Church

Mixed Marriages

The Gift of Life: Life Facts (Abortion, Contraception, Euthanasia)

Some Thoughts on Modesty/Immodest Dress

Traditional Prayers & Practices 

Classic Encyclicals

Where Do We Stand?

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Catholic Basics Section

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Latin Mass & Catholic Tradition Section

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Scripture/Parables Section

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