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to 'Tridentine' Vs. Novus Ordo | Latin Mass/Catholic
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The
Traditional Latin ('Tridentine') Mass vs. the New
(Novus Ordo)
Mass (7)
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Notes:
Refers to the 'Novus Ordo' Mass (Novus Ordo Missae) from the 1960's, in
continued use through the end of the 20th century and into
the 21st century (before the new vernacular translation) and
to the 'Tridentine' Mass at the time
Summorum Pontificum was
promulgated. Primary
Sources Include: Davies, Amerio. Last Update: 2/17/10
Important
Notice: The following is provided for informational purposes only
and is not fully comprehensive. Items may vary and information herein may be
non-representative, subjective, generalized, exceptions, apparent,
infrequent, abuses, etc. Items herein may not be a direct result of a
particular rite of Mass. Translation / wording may vary. We may change
wording, punctuation, capitalization, shorten items, etc. All applicable
items subject to change without notice. We do not guarantee accuracy of
any item herein. We make no guarantees regarding any item herein. We are
not liable for any occurrence which may result from using this site. By
using this site you agree to all terms. For more terms information,
click
here. |
|
Item |
Traditional
Latin ("Tridentine") Mass* |
New
("Novus Ordo") Mass* |
|
Liturgical
Dancing? |
No |
Maybe
(dancers may even appear in the sanctuary in scantily clad outfits!)
|
|
Unusual
Hand Gestures |
No |
Sometimes
(usually started by a few persons and, over time, the faithful
experience 'peer pressure' to adopt them) |
|
Priest
as a Representative of God or the People |
Priest
as a Representative of God |
Priest
as a Representative of the People |
|
Priest
Sits in 'Presider's Chair' While Lay People Read? |
No |
Yes |
|
Childish
or Distorted Looking
Banners in Church? |
No |
Often
yes (they may be made out of felt and look like they were crafted by
second graders) |
|
Regulation
of Priest's Actions |
Much
Note: Regulations help to
ensure that Mass is celebrated reverently and with due dignity. |
Relatively
little |
|
Assistance
of Heretics in the Drafting of the Mass? |
No |
Yes
Note: The Protestant
observers didn't just observe - they took an active part. As
Davies states: "I went to the trouble of writing directly to
one of the [Protestant] Observers, who assured me that they took a
very active part in the study meetings which were complete
free-for-alls with a very frank exchange of views." He
further states: "The Protestant Observers, while not allowed to speak
in the plenary sessions, were able to take an active part in the
informal discussion where the real work of drafting the documents
was done. Their influence is visible in the finalized documents
themselves".
"They are not there
simply as observers, but also as expert advisers and they
participate fully in discussions on the Catholic liturgical
renewal. If they had only listened there wouldn't have been much
sense in it, but they contributed." [Msgr. Baum, as reported
in newspaper (6/27/1967)] |
|
Rite
Required a Special Notation to be Affixed to Assure Catholics That
it Truly Was an orthodox Rite? |
No
|
Yes
"It must be without
precedent in the history of the Church that her most solemn rite
has been phrased in such a dubious manner as to require the
attachment of a preface assuring the faithful that it really is
orthodox." (Davies)
"[N]ever before has the
hierarchy had to assure us that the liturgy really is orthodox,
despite how it may be taken - such as a foreword which insists
that it is orthodox"
|
|
Children
Notice the Difference Between This Rite and Previous Rite? |
N/A
|
Yes
Note: Some children may even
compare the two as the "noisy Mass" and the "quiet
Mass". |
|
Attempt
to Replace Crucifix With a "Glorified Christ"? |
No
|
Yes
"From what We have
already explained, Venerable Brethren, it is perfectly clear how
much modern writers are wanting in the genuine and true liturgical
spirit who, deceived by the illusion of a higher mysticism, dare
to assert that attention should be paid not to the historic Christ
but to a "pneumatic" or glorified Christ. They do not
hesitate to assert that a change has taken place in the piety of
the faithful by dethroning, as it were, Christ from His position;
since they say that the glorified Christ, who liveth and reigneth
forever and sitteth at the right hand of the Father, has been
overshadowed and in His place has been substituted that Christ who
lived on earth. For this reason, some have gone so far as to want
to remove from the churches images of the divine Redeemer
suffering on the cross. But these false statements are completely
opposed to the solid doctrine handed down by tradition... Besides,
the liturgy shows us Christ not only as a model to be imitated but
as a master to whom we should listen readily, a Shepherd whom we
should follow, Author of our salvation, the Source of our holiness
and the Head of the Mystical Body whose members we are, living by
His very life. Since His bitter sufferings constitute the
principal mystery of our redemption, it is only fitting that the
Catholic faith should give it the greatest prominence. This
mystery is the very center of divine worship since the Mass
represents and renews it every day and since all the sacraments
are most closely united with the cross." (Pope Pius XII,
"Mediator Dei", 1947 A.D.) |
|
Mass
May Appear As a Mere Commemoration Rather Than a Sacramental
Action?
|
No
"If any one saith, that
the sacrifice of the mass is only a sacrifice of praise and of
thanksgiving; or, that it is a bare commemoration of the sacrifice
consummated on the cross, but not a propitiatory sacrifice; or,
that it profits him only who receives; and that it ought not to be
offered for the living and the dead for sins, pains,
satisfactions, and other necessities; let him be anathema."
(Council of Trent)
|
Possibly
yes |
|
Mass
Possibly Tends to Undermine Catholic Dogma? |
No |
Possibly
yes [e.g. Communion in the hand tends to undermine the dogma of
the Real Presence, 'lay ministers' tend to undermine the dogma of the
priesthood, reduced references to sacrifice tend to undermine
the dogma of the Mass as a sacrifice, broad references (e.g. "all
the dead whose faith is known to You alone", "all who seek You
with a sincere heart", etc. in place of "all orthodox believers
who keep the Catholic and Apostolic faith") to tend to undermine
the dogma of No Salvation Outside the Church, etc.] |
|
Priest's
Special Powers Are Clear? |
Yes |
Generally
not
"Not a word is said,
moreover, about the priest's power as a 'sacrificer,' his
consecratory action or how as intermediary he brings about the
Eucharistic presence. He now appears as nothing more than a
Protestant 'minister'." (Cardinals Ottaviani & Bacci) |
|
Splendor
of Mass |
Much
"[Mass] should be celebrated with the proper splendor of
sacred ceremonies and rites so that the greatness of this mystery
will shine forth all the more even from external
appearances." (Pope Pius IX, "Amantissimi Redemptoris", 1858 A.D.) |
Generally
little
"The new liturgy was
simply not formed by saints, homines religiosi, and artistically
gifted men, but has been worked out by so-called experts, who are
not at all aware that in our time there is a lack of talent for
such things. Today is a time of incredible talent for technology
and medical research, but not for the organic shaping of the
expression of the religious world. We live in a world without
poetry, and this means that one should approach the treasures
handed on from more fortunate times with twice as much reverence,
and not with the illusion that we can do it better ourselves...
The new liturgy is without splendor, flattened, and
undifferentiated." (Von Hildebrand) |
|
Liturgy
Protects the Integrity of the Religion Revealed By God? |
Yes
"[T]he sacred liturgy is
intimately bound up with doctrinal propositions which the Church
proposes to be perfectly true and certain, and must as a
consequence conform to the decrees respecting Catholic faith
issued by the supreme teaching authority of the Church with a view
to safeguarding the integrity of the religion revealed by
God." (Pope Pius XII, "Mediator Dei", 1947 A.D.) |
Seems
less able to protect (e.g. due to avoidance of negative topics,
avoidance of mentioning Mass as a proprietary sacrifice, apparent
discounting of fear of the Lord, etc.)
|
|
Variety
of Prayer Options? |
No |
Yes
"A variety of prayer
options makes it impossible to worship with Catholic unity
throughout the world. It can even endanger the validly of the Mass
since a priest may invent his own prayers without the people realizing
it." |
|
Mass
Displays Nobility, Sacredness and Universality? |
Yes
"Three characteristics of which Our predecessor Pius X
spoke should adorn all liturgical services: sacredness, which
abhors any profane influence; nobility, which true and genuine
arts should serve and foster; and universality, which, while
safeguarding local and legitimate custom, reveals the catholic
unity of the Church." (Pope Pius XII, "Mediator
Dei", 1947 A.D.) |
Usually
not
Note: Not only do the
variations and use of the vernacular language make the Mass less
universal, the rite itself removes (or makes optional) many
elements which made the Mass appear noble and sacred. Further, in
some areas, the Masses appear to be directly opposed to nobility
and sacredness [e.g. clown masses, polka masses, 'incultured'
masses, etc. - there have even been "dancing, costumes,
cheerleaders, acrobats, priests in clown suits, vehicles purposely
driven inside the church, etc." - there was even a case of a
waiter saying 'mass' (nowdays the parishioners seem unable to tell
whether someone is actually a priest)]. (Source: Davies) |
|
Ability
to Manipulate Liturgy for Political or Social Ends? |
No |
Yes
Note: The Novus Ordo Mass is
not fixed may even allow various options, inculturation, prayer
intentions, etc., which may be manipulated for political or social
ends. |
|
Widespread
Liturgical Abuse Necessitated Papal Apology? |
No |
Yes
"I would like to ask
forgiveness - in my own name and in the name of all of you,
venerable and dear brothers in the episcopate - for everything
which, for whatever reason, through whatever human weakness,
impatience or negligence, and also through the at times partial,
one-sided and erroneous applications of the directives of the
Second Vatican Council, may have caused scandal and disturbance
concerning the interpretation of the doctrine and the veneration
due to this great sacrament. And I pray the Lord Jesus that in the
future we may avoid in our manner of dealing with this Sacred
Mystery anything which could weaken or disorient in any way the
sense of reverence and love that exists in our faithful
people." (Pope John Paul II, 1980 A.D.)
"No one whose memory goes back to 1960 could have imagined that
at that time that twenty years later a Sovereign Pontiff would
find it necessary to apologize to the faithful for the state of
abject degradation to which the Roman Rite has
been reduced." (Davies) |
*
Note: Not fully comprehensive. Items herein may be subjective. Items
herein may be "in general" and may not occur all the
time, if at all. Items herein may be exceptions or there may be
exceptions to items herein. Items herein may be limited to
appearance only (and not to actual fact). Items herein may be
'abuses'. Items herein may not be a direct result of a particular
rite of Mass. All applicable items subject to change without
notice. We make no guarantees regarding any item herein. By using this
site you agree to all terms. For more terms information, see
"Important Notice" above.
It
should be clear from the above that the two Masses are dramatically different and that the preference for the Old Mass has nothing to do
with nostalgia or "personal preferences". Instead, the
Old Rite of Mass is clearly superior to the New Rite of Mass - and this
is evidenced by countless proofs. If one wishes to dispute this, such an
argument must be based on facts, scripture, legitimate tradition, etc. -
not on one's personal opinion. In fact, it seems that those
'attached' to the Novus Ordo Mass - not those attached to the
'Tridentine' Mass do so for reasons of opinion! As Davies
points out, "Pity rather than anger is the appropriate response
towards those who honesty believe that we are in the midst of a
liturgical renewal, and that a committee of so-called experts has indeed
produced a liturgy superior to the 'Tridentine' Mass, the most venerable
rite in Christendom, a rite that developed imperceptibly over a
millennium under the guidance of the Holy Ghost."
We
must keep in mind that our entire faith stands or falls based on whether Christ
is truly made present on the altar. Since infallible Catholic teaching
tells us that He is made truly present and that the Mass truly is
a sacrifice, it is important that we act accordingly. If we allow the
Mass to be considered a simple "get together" rather than a
sacred event - the most sacred of all events - we will, over time, tend
to see improper behavior, loss of faith, and even offenses against God. This has been seen countless times. Clearly, the New Rite of Mass has
resulted in confusion of dogma, profanation, and sacrilege. It has
turned us away from Christ and centered us on ourselves. It overthrew hundreds of years of tradition - and caused the near
discarding of a Mass developed under the guidance of the Holy Spirit and
cherished by saints (not to mention countless laity). We went from having a liturgy that was rejected by
heretics to one that heretics freely use; from one considered
outstanding in beauty to one called "banal". We went from one
that was holy, reverent, and universal to one that is often irreverent -
even invalid - and divisive; from one that was controlled to one that is
often "out of control". We went from enjoying the richest of
fruits to suffering from many bitter fruits. Considering that the Mass is the "heartbeat
of the Church", it is clear that the 'health' of the Mass
affects the Church at large. As our enemies have always known,
"It's the Mass that matters!"
To
attempt to argue that the New Rite of Mass was directly willed by God seems
contrary to logic. God is unchanging, and the fruits of the New Rite
speak for themselves. To argue that the New Rite of Mass has been more
beneficial to the faithful than the Old Rite defies clear evidence
to the contrary. Even if the New Rite is celebrated according to
the rubrics - which would be an improvement for many - problems will
still remain. The trouble is not so much the abuses (although this is a
grave problem), but it may be traced to the rite itself - the rite
which Cardinals Ottaviani and
Bacci said "represents, as a whole and in detail, a striking
departure from the Catholic theology of the Holy Mass as it was
formulated in Session XXII of the Council of Trent".
Clearly
we are not discussing a matter of little significance nor are we
considering two rites that are "substantially similar".
Rather there are "oceans of difference" between them (one may
say that the Traditional Latin Mass and the 1960's Novus Ordo Mass are
about as alike as Gregorian chant and guitars).
Finally,
since we must "always act in the way that will give [the] most glory to
God" (St. John Vianney), it would seem that we are obliged to
attend the rite of Mass that best accomplishes this goal, the Mass which
is unequivocally Catholic - the Mass which developed under the guidance of the
Holy Spirit', the 'Tridentine'
Rite, called "the most beautiful thing this side of heaven".
Our faith and souls may literally be at stake! Note:
Thankfully, the Church has provided for the continued celebration of
this incomparable rite. For information on its availability, contact your
bishop. You should also note that it is in NO WAY disobedient to
attend licit 'Tridentine' Masses (even though some prelates may attempt
to convince you of the contrary). Click
here for more information.
-
"[R]ather
than focus on supernatural elements like penance, commands,
faith and virtues, we are looking towards 'openness' and
'community'. Is this was Jesus asks of us in the Gospels?"
-
"So
now we think we're smarter than all those who have gone before us?
All of the sudden we think we can create a new rite of Mass which is
better than one attributed to the guidance of the Holy Ghost working
throughout the centuries? Is it not the epitome of arrogance?"
-
"How
can we be content with a Mass created by man?"
-
"Take
out the altar, put in a table. Take away Christ, put in 'bread' - will
this satisfy anyone?"
-
Is
the "Novus Ordo" Rite - almost inseparably associated with
abuses - truly worthy of God's praise? [Reminder: This refers to
the new rite as compared to the old rite, of course, and does not in
any way refer to the Sacrament, which is the same in both Masses]
-
"God
is our creator, and as His creatures it is our first duty to love
and serve Him. How does the new Mass do this better than the
old?" - As one Fourth Century apologist has said, "It is on this condition that we are made to
exist: that we pay the debt of service justly owed to the God who
makes us to exist, and that we recognize and follow only Him."
-
"Why
would we desire that which is inferior?"
In closing,
consider these quotations...
-
"The
liturgical reform is a major conquest of the Catholic Church"
(Archbishop Bugnini, "chief architect of the New Mass") (emphasis
added)
-
"Was
it not Luther who said that if the Mass was destroyed Roman Catholicism
would be done for?" (A. Von Hildebrand)
-
"[The common denominator in the changes] is the aim of bringing
Catholic worship into conformity with that of the Protestant sects...the
present liturgical revolution, while not identical with [the Protestant
'Reformer'] Cranmer's, has more than sufficient parallels to outrage any
Catholic who loves the Faith." (Davies)
-
"The
various customs of the Church in the divine worship are in no way
contrary to the truth: wherefore we must observe them, and to
disregard them is unlawful." (St. Thomas Aquinas, Doctor of the
Church and "greatest theologian in the history of the
Church")
-
Even
the Pope who imposed the Mass, Pope Paul VI said the imposition of
the New Mass was a "many-sided inconvenience", and that
"This novelty is no small thing". He referred to the New
Mass as an "innovation", and a "grave change".
He said that by parting with Latin "we are becoming like
profane intruders in the literary preserve of sacred utterance"
and that "We will lose a great part of that stupendous and incomparable
artistic and spiritual thing, the Gregorian chant." He even
said that "We have reason indeed for regret, reason almost for
bewilderment."
-
"In 1969 a new rite of Mass was promulgated in which, to paraphrase
the bishops of the province of Westminster, prayers and ceremonies in
previous use were subtracted, and the existing rite was remodeled in the
most drastic manner. It was proclaimed triumphantly that this reform,
better termed a revolution, would initiate a second Pentecost within the
Church, but from the very beginning it initiated an unprecedented
collapse in Mass attendance and Catholic life in general throughout the
Western world. Msgr. Gamber sums up the true fruits of this revolution
as follows: The liturgical reform, welcomed with so much idealism and
hope by many priests and lay people alike, has turned out to be a
liturgical destruction of startling proportions - a debacle worsening with
each passing year. Instead of the hoped - for renewal of the Church and of
Catholic life, we are now witnessing a dismantling of the traditional
values and piety on which our faith rests. Instead of the fruitful
renewal of the liturgy, what we see is a destruction of the forms of the
Mass which had developed organically during the course of many centuries.
Cardinal John Heenan, Archbishop of Westminster, England,
warned in 1972: 'One does not need to be a prophet to realize that
without a dramatic reversal of the present trend there will be no future
for the Church in English-speaking countries.' The trend to which the
Cardinal referred was not confined to English-speaking countries.
Cardinal Daneels of Brussels, in an interview given in England in May
2000, warned that the Church in Europe is facing extinction. That this
is also the case in the United States is made clear in an article by Dr.
James Lothian, a professor of economics, published in the Homiletic
& Pastoral Review in October 2000. Dr. Lothian notes that the
official view from the Vatican on down is that what it terms the
'liturgical renewal' that was promised 'has taken place and that the
Church is all the better for it.' The statistics that he cites prove
that the opposite is true. Particularly significant is that he proves
that during the period following Vatican II, when the catastrophic
decline in Mass attendance got under way, there was no such decline
within Protestant denominations. 'Church' attendance for Protestants, in
contrast, has followed a much different path. For most of the period it
was without any discernible trend, either up or down. In recent years it
has actually risen. The notion that the Catholic fall off was simply one
part of a larger societal trend, therefore, receives absolutely no
support in these data.'" (Davies)
-
"What was intended by Vatican Council II as a means of making the
liturgy more easily understood by the average Christian, has turned out
to be something more like an orgy of stripping it of all sense of
reverence, bringing it down to the level of commonness where the very
people for whom the changes were made now only yawn out of sheer
boredom with the banality of the result." (Archbishop Dwyer)
-
"The results of the
council seem cruelly to contradict the expectations
everybody had, beginning with John XXIII and Paul VI: it was expected to
produce a new unity among Catholics, but instead dissention has
increased...it was expected to produce a leap forward, but we have been
confronted instead with a continuing process of decay" (Cardinal
Ratzinger, the future Pope Benedict XVI)
-
"Opposition
to the New Mass is not based to any great extent upon suffering
caused by cultural deprivation... I am sure that most
traditionalists would prefer to assist at a Low Mass in an
accurately translated vernacular text of the Mass of St. Pius V
rather than a sung Latin version of the New Mass, however dignified
and beautiful. Let it be made clear once and for all, opposition to
the New Mass is based on theological and not cultural
considerations, although, clearly, responsible Catholics will also
make every effort to fulfill the express command in the Vatican II
Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy to preserve the Church's treasury
of sacred music and the use of Latin in the liturgy." (Davies)
-
"The
innovations in the Novus Ordo Missae, and on the other hand the
things of eternal value relegated to an inferior or different place
(if indeed they are still to be found at all), could well turn into
a certainly the suspicion, already prevalent, alas, in many circles,
that truths which have always been believed by Christians can be
altered or silenced without infidelity to that sacred deposit of
doctrine to which the Catholic faith is bound forever. Recent
reforms have amply shown that fresh changes in the liturgy could not
but lead to utter bewilderment on the part of the faithful, who are
already giving signs of restiveness and of an indubitable lessening
of faith. Amongst the best of the clergy the practical result is an
agonizing crisis of conscience of which numberless instances come to
our notice daily." (Cardinals Ottaviani and Bacci)
-
"[T]he
Novus Ordo Missae - considering the new elements, susceptible of
widely differing evaluation, which appear to be implied or taken for
granted - represents, as a whole and in detail, a striking departure
from the Catholic theology of the Holy Mass as it was formulated in
Session XXII of the Council of Trent, which, by fixing definitively
the 'canons' of the rite, erected an insurmountable barrier against
any heresy which might attack the integrity of the Mystery." (Cardinals
Ottaviani and Bacci) Commentary by Davies: "Subsequent events have proved the two
Cardinals to have been true prophets. The barriers are down, the
consequences are plain from everyone to see."
|
"Give
to the LORD, you heavenly beings, give to the LORD glory and
might; Give to the LORD the glory due God's name. Bow down before
the LORD'S holy splendor!" (Ps. 29:1-2)
"We
must honor God as he requires us to honor him" (St. John
Vianney)
"It
is the highest duty of religion to imitate Him whom you
adore." (St. Augustine, Doctor of the Church)
"In
order to discover the character of a people, we have only to
observe what they love." (St. Augustine, Doctor of the
Church)
"There
is indeed nothing which is more contrary to, or bad for, church
discipline, than negligently and disrespectfully to carry out
liturgical worship." (Pope Benedict XIV)
"It
is absurd, and a detestable shame, that we should suffer those
traditions to be changed which we have received from the fathers
of old." (Decretals, as quoted by St. Thomas Aquinas, Doctor
of the Church and "greatest theologian in the history of the
Church")
"Our
dearest churches, which had been erected by the piety of our
ancestors, and were sacred by innumerable memories - how many
times have they not been made ruins! Satan's ambition is to efface
every vestige of Christ's kingdom on earth, for that kingdom is
his defeat." (Dom Gueranger)
"Every
injury offered to external worship, which is the great social
link, is an injury to the interests of mankind. Even if there were
not the word of God for it, it is but just that such a consequence
should follow." (Dom Gueranger)
"[T]he
crisis in the Church that we are experiencing today is to a large
extent due to the disintegration of the liturgy." (Cardinal
Ratzinger, the future Pope Benedict XVI)
|
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